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<br /> <b>Strict Standards</b>: Non-static method BP_Options::get() should not be called statically in <b>/home/absolut6/public_html/forums/bb-includes/backpress/functions.bp-options.php</b> on line <b>9</b><br /> Fallacy of final judgement « Absolute-Truth Forums

Absolute-Truth Forums » Truth Musings

Fallacy of final judgement

(3 posts)
  1. Anonymous

    Put simply, the basic premise of the Abrahamic beliefs (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are as follows:

    - God is just, kind, perfect
    - This life is our first and last life
    - God is testing us here
    - Based on the marks we obtain in this test, we will go to either Heaven or Hell.

    The differences between Judaism, Christianity and Islam lie only in
    - the testing criteria and the description of Heaven and Hell
    - the level of fanaticism required for passing this Test.

    But the basic construct is same – One Life which is Test, God is best examiner, and Result is Pass (Heaven) or Fail (Hell) .

    Let us evaluate this basic construct critically through a series of examples, and decide whether it is logically plausible.

    1.
    Many children die in the wombs. Now as per Islam or Christianity would they go to Heaven or Hell? Most scholars of Islam and Christianity say they go to Heaven because they never did anything wrong in their lives.

    Now my question is “Did they even have an option to do anything wrong?”

    Is God not being partial by clearing one candidate even without starting his examination, and another one has to keep giving test after test continuously for 100 years!

    2.
    Many children die young before they reach maturity. Even the wrong acts they do are not out of willful desire to do something wrong but out of innocence. Would they reach Heaven or Hell?

    If they reach Heaven, then why does God not kill everyone in their childhood and ensure a seat in Heaven for them? Is God not being unjust and imperfect?

    If they reach Hell, what was their fault?

    Say twins were born. Both lived same innocent life for first 3 years. Then one died. He will go straight to Heaven. The other remained innocent for next few years, then got into bad company, became an Apostate/Kafir and died at age of 60. Now he should go to Hell, as per the Books.

    Is this not God’s crime that he made him live for 60 years and not his brother? Had he killed both at same age of 3 years, both would have gone to Heaven!

    So if there is one life and permanent Heaven/Hell, it proves God is unjust.

    3.
    A person is born insane. His mental faculties have not developed beyond say, age of five. But he lives a long life. Will he go to Hell or Heaven?

    Again the same questions as above rise. And result in either God being unjust or concept of one life as test to enter Heaven/Hell being wrong.
    4.
    One person is born in family of Hindu, another in home of an atheist, one as a Muslim and another as a Christian. Based on what they imbibe from their respective societies, they become a devout Hindu, Atheist, Muslim and Christian respectively.

    Now as per Islam, only those who believe in Quran and Muhammad can go to Heaven. As per Christians, only those who surrender to Jesus can go to Heaven.

    So who will go where?

    Definitely the Hindu and Atheist are bound to go to Hell. Now my question is “Was God not unjust by not giving everyone birth in family of Muslim or Christian, whosoever is correct?”

    What is my fault if I was born and brought up in a Hindu family and never got any reason to be convinced by Quran or Bible? Why has God planned my stay in Hell from advance?

    5.
    A person who is devout follower of Islam believes that children go to Heaven because that is what scholars teach him. So as a noble example of self-sacrifice, he starts killing children. His logic is that, even if I have to burn in Hell forever, I should do my best to ensure that these innocent children get reservation for Paradise!

    Thus he is doing a selfless social service. Will he go to Heaven or Hell?

    If he goes to Heaven, then Allah or God is setting a wrong example for people to follow.

    If he goes to Hell, then selflessness is bad.

    Further, since no one will actually know who will go where until doomsday comes, it means God has already spread enough confusion to motivate many innocent selfless social workers to follow the path of infanticide and killing!

    6.
    An unbiased testing environment will demand that
    - first the subject be taught to everyone with same facilities,
    - then they should be evaluated under same testing environment.

    Accordingly, God should have first imbibed Quran or Bible, whichever is true, in hearts of all people, then given them birth in same types of family, allowed them to grow up in same place and in same conditions, and only then should have conducted the test.

    But in this world, we find the testing environment to be as diverse as one can possibly imagine. And yet God is claimed to be perfect, just and kind!

    Most religious scholars answer this paradox by saying that God or Allah knows how to decide the fate by whatever acts people have done in their respective lives based on whatever environment they had to live in. This seems to be like God having something like the Duckworth-Lewis formula which is used to decide winner of an interrupted cricket match.

    Now this raises few doubts:

    One,
    if indeed God is perfect and He has such a great scoring formula, why did he create the entire drama and wasted so many years? He should have used the formula in the very beginning and directly sent everyone to either Heaven or Hell!

    Two,
    If the formula works on a stillborn child or a fetus, why did he unnecessarily bias against certain folks and had them face troubles of long lives? After all He had created everyone equal to start with!

    Three,
    The test seems to have discrete results. As per Quran, all Heaven-goers would get 72 virgins each. There seems to be no concept of variation of results as per deeds. Some books do talk of several varieties of Heaven, but these merely increase a binary solution to a finite number solution (Instead of one Heaven and one Hell, there are now say 10 Heavens and 10 Hells). But still there is no continuous gradation. It is like a continuous function equation is giving a non-zero discrete answer, which is mathematically improbable.
    7.
    People seem to be retaining their youthful bodies in Heaven. Now will they be able to change their looks if they want to? What about children and fetus who go to Heaven? Will they go as adults? Will they receive a training in Hebrew or Arabic which is supposed to be the language of Heaven? If indeed so, why did God not make only one single language in earth also?

    8.
    What about animals – reptiles, insects, mammals and other creatures? Will they go to Heaven or Hell? The earlier belief was that animals do not have souls. But now that it has been amply proved that at least the higher animals feel pain and pleasure like humans, the opinion is divided.

    Some claim that they will also go to Heaven. Others say that Allah knows the best!

    In case they go to Heaven, why did God or Allah bias against others and not gave them birth as cockroaches and goats? That way they too would have got straight passport to Heaven!

    In case they go to Hell, what was their fault?

    Also, will they live like cockroaches and goats, or will they get human body? Will their intelligence be enhanced? Or they remain equally dumb as in earth?

    9.
    Heaven and Hell seem to be permanent. It will continue forever, as per these religions. Now if that be so, God’s injustice becomes even more prominent in light of above points.

    Based on one single test, God put certain people directly in Heaven without testing them at all! Others he tested for so many years. Some he gave birth in homes of Apostates, some as children of Prophet himself.

    Is this not gravest cheating?

    God is the most unjust and biggest cheater of these stories of there being one single exam and Heaven/Hell forever be true.

    A corollary:
    What would happen if people start fighting or cheating or adultery in Heaven? Will they be shifted to Hell? Or will they be permitted to do whatever they want and yet remain in Heaven?

    The Holy Books seem to be silent on this!

    By Agniveer

    Posted 7 years ago #
  2. Anonymous

    It had been guessed PROBABLY by Prophet Mohammaed(peace be upon him)that there would be 73 sects of Islam in the future and only one sect would go to Heaven..........then now there are so many sects like Shia, Suni, Wahabi, Qadiyani etc. etc. In sunni also there are four sub sects like Hanfi, Hambli, Safai etc.I asked one of my so -called muslam iman friend about this condition of going to heaven then he said that all should try to be only muslaman not to be shia or sunni.........Then I asked him are you shia or sunni (he was sunni).....he said I am a muslalman. then I asked r u ready to offer your prayers in shia's mosque ? he was answerless. I asked him can u believe the belief of shia that Quran reached to Prophet Mohammed by mistake and it should have been gone to Ali? He disagreed . Then I asked him if u want to be only musalman how it is possible because shias do not go to sunnis mosque, sunnis do not go shia mosque.....etc. What should be the common memorendum for all muslims so that all can reach heaven.....what about animals.which sect they should follow...........How can u assure non muslims to go heaven after conversion when u are not sure about yourself?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  3. Truth Seeker
    Key Master

    The cruel God of Christianity and Islam

    The One Way Lane
    For many forms of Christianity and Islam, the surrendering process you could say is voluntary — but you have a great choice: you want to go to heaven or you want to be burnt alive for trillions of years. Let me think about that. First of all the idea we burn in hell is actually an evil theory because what if you read in the newspaper that some guy in Los Angeles had twenty kids and he gave all his kids lot of things to do and a few of his kids were disobedient and did not do exactly what the father wanted them to. The father poured lighter fluid on them and ignited them and he did it in such a way so they would burn as long as possible. He tried, he did not want them to die very soon and burnt them alive. I mean that person would be considered the most evil monster. I often challenge audiences when speaking to come up with something, an act more evil than torturing your own children forever. And therefore if some of these Christian views were correct, the only rational conclusion would be that God would be most evil monster ever conceived by human beings.

    Why it doesn't make sense
    In Bhagavad-gita we find that it’s not like this fanatical thing where if you do not surrender, if you do not accept Christ in your heart you are going to be fried for a very long time. In Bhagavad-gita, when Krsna describes the mode of goodness it does not even include Him, in other words Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita you can be happy and actually be elevated, go to higher planets and never even accept Him. Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita, “sattvat sanjayate sukham” (sic), from goodness comes happiness. Krsna says, “urdhvam gacchanti sattva-sthah”, those situated in sattva guna, urdhvam gacchanti, they go upward. So you can be elevated, materially happy, live with the angels and all that and not accept Krsna. He is not the jealous God they [indistinct] it. This is a cosmopolitan, liberal deity. Krsna is not a religious fanatic. God is not a religious fanatic. It is interesting how you do have these religious fanatics in the world who think that God is one of them. So I mean think of it. In the middle of Oxford, England, the famous college town, in the middle of this old historic centre there is a monument, two-three Oxford professors of theology were burnt alive at the stake by the queen of England because the professors had got their positions when there was a Protestant monarch. And there was a change and a Catholic queen came to power and she did not want any Protestant theology taught, and they could not give it up, because, I mean they were in a sense not as violent as she was but philosophically they [indistinct] were foolish. They believed they would go to hell forever if they taught Catholic doctrine and the queen thought the students of these professors would go to hell forever if they believed what the professors were teaching. It is obviously very intuitive people, so the queen the burned them alive at the stake. I mean after all if God is going to burn the unrepentant, people will join the wrong church. If God is going to burn them forever and I just burn them for a half-hour, I mean God as in heaven and so on earth. I am walking in the path of the Lord by burning people alive. So despite all these piety and despite all of its excellent music and architecture, the point is that there was something despite all the good things there is something actually evil. There is something evil in such religions. There is something evil in it actually. I mean to burn people alive is evil especially because they don’t, they have studied different views on certain philosophical matters. To burn them alive is evil. To think that God would torture in the most hideous way, his own children, forever, because in the relatively tiny window of opportunity they were given to join the right church, they did not make that occur and there was no question of second chances, no second chance, you are just going to be put in the divine skillet. And you are going to be fried forever and God’s intension is not to save you or to rectify you because there is not a second chance. It’s not even some brutal, incredibly tough love, to get you to the right point. No! God has absolutely no further interest in ever saving you again. He only wants you to suffer forever. That is evil. That idea is actually evil and frankly, a lot of the anti-religious sentiments, a lot of them, I mean the fact that a large number of educated people in this country have a somewhat negative view of organized religion, obviously has to be traced to this evil, this monstrous perversion of religion. And in the Old Testament there are certain passages where certain people who thought they were prophets informed the people that God is speaking through them, that now God wants genocide to be carried out. I recall the worshippers of Baal, who was like some kind of demigod or local nature god in Palestine and so anyone who worships their god, the men, children, and women and all have to be murdered and God would be very displeased if any women or children were spared; in other words genocide. So now this tradition for all of its good points and there are good points, but this tradition in which God ordered genocide, where God tortures his own children forever if they make one mistake, this monstrous evil comes from a certain part of the world which is the Middle East.

    Posted 5 years ago #

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